Sam Coats, good to see you in DC. A last
minute deployment for you from
Westminster uh to here in Washington.
>> Thank you for having me. I got an hour's
notice to come over, hop on a plane.
>> I know you you and I were both on our
holidays. Uh and uh we're both back in
the thick of it. It felt like naugh to
60 in a split second here.
>> How could I refuse the invitation
though? All the glamour of the White
House. How all the glamour of the Trump
100 studio.
>> Yes. Little to was I to know that the
reality of covering the White House. I
mean, standing in a bush next to you,
>> literally in a bush. We were in a bush
all day. I've never seen the White House
quite uh so busy as it was uh today. It
was a truly long day. And it ended uh
with a post from the president. I'll
read it to you because it's highly
significant. He said in the last few
hours, "Everyone is very happy about the
possibility of peace capital letters uh
for Russia Ukraine. At the conclusion of
the meetings, I called President Putin
and began the arrangements for a meeting
at a location to be determined between
President Putin and President Zilinski.
After that meeting takes place, we will
have a trilat, he says, which will be
the two presidents plus myself. So there
we are. Trump in front of the world at a
table with Europe's leaders who'd
hastily rushed to DC. He says he's
organizing a meeting between Putin and
Zilinski. Is President Trump really
about to bring Putin and Zilinski
together and find peace in Ukraine? I'm
Mark Stone, just back in the Trump 100
studio after a whirlwind 14 hours at the
White House. And I'm Sam Coat, Sky News
deputy political editor, making a
special appearance on today's Trump 100
on a momentous day in both America and
across Europe. I've also hot footed it
to the studio with you, Mark, after a
whole day of live reporting next to you.
Yeah. And you went from the White House
uh to the British Embassy, didn't you?
Where you've just interviewed uh Kia
Starmmer. Uh I guess let's let's begin
there with with that. What was his
framing of the day? Look, I think Kier
Starmmer, like a lot of the European
leaders will have gone home happy. He
certainly said he did to me and to other
reporters in the British embassy just
now, which was his final stop before he
flew home. Um he he said there have been
two big wins. Uh the first I think is
the biggest one of all which was he was
celebrating the US promise of a security
guarantee which I think is the biggest
headline we'd all agree uh out of out of
today. Uh and also just that
conversations are going to continue that
there will be further meetings and that
you know I think there's a sense that uh
it's not a foregone conclusion but there
is a real opportunity now for peace.
>> Yeah. I mean it's it's pretty
remarkable. It's it's moved very fast.
There are achievements and we'll get
into those. Um but there's also a lot
that we still don't know. There's a lot
of detail and and as we have become as
as has become very clear uh with this
second Trump presidency, the course can
change very very quickly, can't it? So
when we think there's progress, suddenly
uh there is a massive massive setback or
or suddenly, you know, Trump moves in a
completely um different direction that
no one expected. But I guess let's begin
um with with just how unusual this was
because as you say you were um you got
an hour's notice uh to come out here
yesterday, Sunday. Uh because all of
this was cooked up in the space of of
what just just 24 hours. Friday of
course was that moment in Alaska.
Saturday Zilinski confirmed he would be
coming uh to the White House. And at
that point a key European leaders
realized they needed to be here as well.
Starmer among them.
>> That's right. And I think Kama was on
holiday in Scotland at the point where
he realized he worked out that he needed
to be one of those European leaders that
flew across to the Atlantic to sort of
stand shoulder-to-shoulder with
President Zilinsky to make sure he
wasn't bounced into some kind of peace
deal that he didn't want. The optics on
Friday when President Trump met uh
President Putin unnerved European
leaders. I've had conversations with
diplomats that that that confirm that
they felt that Donald Trump seemed to be
swaying too much uh in President Putin's
direction. He was changing his arguments
about whether there was a need for an
immediate ceasefire uh adopting Putin's
position that you didn't need to have a
ceasefire up front, but you could uh uh
you you could concentrate on the peace
deal uh first. Um and all of that added
up to a worrying situation. So there are
a couple of goals for leaders, but first
and foremost, it was make to make sure
that there wasn't a bad outcome for uh
the Ukrainian president when he turned
up today. And uh being the wingman of
him was was sort of aim number one.
>> A bad outcome being a repeat of
February. I mean, we all remember that.
I was there at the White House. I have
no doubt you were watching it all. Uh
probably your your jaw was was on the
floor as was mine uh in February as we
saw that meltdown uh in the White House.
Don't tell us what we're going to feel.
You're not in a good position. You don't
have the cards right now
>> with us. You start having cards right
now. You don't You're playing cards, Mr.
You're gambling with the lives of
millions of people. You're gambling with
World War II.
>> Have you said thank you once?
>> You think that if you will speak very
loudly about the war, you can
>> He's not speaking loudly. He's not
speaking loudly. Your country is in big
trouble.
>> Can I help? Wait a minute. No. No.
they've done a lot of talking. Your
country is in big trouble.
>> There was clearly uh a a desire to make
sure that wasn't repeated. But I guess
as well a desire to be in the room. I
mean the eur Europe was not in the room
uh in Alaska. And so today they needed
to dominate the room and so they did. Um
and they dominated the room in in a
couple of ways. Um they actually the
European leaders met with President
Zinski ahead of his meeting with Donald
Trump. And I think that's where some of
the most serious business was conducted
because we got a sort of preview of the
lines that President Zinski was going to
use with President Trump. Uh he released
a uh a post immediately beforehand uh
talking about his aims for for when he
got to the White House and you could see
right away there was a much more
imolient tone. There was no more demands
for an immediate ceasefire. Uh he talked
about, you know, in language that echoes
that of Donald Trump, a need to stop the
killings. Uh there was a praise for the
American president. Um it was almost as
if the coaching uh was being sort of
turned into some kind of script. The
script we were reading before he went
in, European Union leaders were giving
him the lines uh that he needed to use
in order to provide avoid a repeat of
February. and the the vibe outside the
White House, you know, from 7:00, 8:00,
9:00, 10:00, the hours passed by and
there was a real sense of anticipation.
I have never seen, as I say, the White
House uh grounds so busy. Journalists
from all around the world, all of them
kind of really anticipating how this
would unfold because, you know, this is
the Trump show. No one quite knows what
he's going to do uh where which which
direction it's it's going to go uh in.
and and and in the um in the crowd, I
spotted an old friend of mine. Uh Tanya
Koseriva is a a Ukrainian journalist.
She works now for the the Ukrainian
state broadcaster. She's their
Washington correspondent. She and I go
back a bit because a couple of years
ago, she was working for Sky. She was
our local producer in Ukraine. Uh when I
was out there and and she and I um spent
quite some time on the front lines in
the east of Ukraine. In fact, we had
this one quite extraordinary moment
where we were we were in the trenches uh
with the Ukrainian military. Um and we
were supposed to be there for about 20
minutes. Uh and then um you know, one
thing led to another and the vehicle
that was supposed to take us out of
these trenches uh disappeared. And so we
were stuck there for about an hour and
there was incoming from the from the
from the Russians and it was it was a
frightening moment and it it was a
visceral moment for me for her as well
as a Ukrainian of just just just what
war looks like uh in the east of
Ukraine. What it looked like then and
what it still looks like uh now. It was
it was uh you know quite a moment and
actually uh tragic as well because a
week or so after uh we had been at that
with that Ukrainian unit uh on the front
line uh we discovered that that whole
unit had been wiped out by Russian uh a
Russian attack. She is now in Washington
and I caught up with her to get her
sense of just how important this moment
was.
I'm nervous of course also very excited
and you know a lot of feelings I guess
because you know last meeting here in
white house was a disaster diplomatic
disaster from both sides I guess
especially
um you know uh I guess a lot of
Ukrainians were disappointed that some
unimportant things were discussed back
then like
>> like the suit
>> like the suit yes it's not important
given that people are dying every today
in Ukraine and it's a matter of lives
for many you know and I guess many
Ukrainians would hope that this meeting
will
um will have the outcome you know will
will will lead to the peace uh and uh
end of the war. So just after we spoke
um the Ukrainian president arrived and
in he went and it was clear wasn't it
Sam very quickly uh that this Oval
Office moment uh was wholly different
from the one back in February.
>> Thank you so much Mr. President. If I
can first of all thank you for
invitation and thank you very much for
your efforts uh personal efforts to stop
killings and stop this war. Thank you.
And uh using this opportunity, many
thanks to your wife, first lady of the
United States.
>> You could see from the tone that
President Zeleletki adopted right at the
start uh from his praise for Donald
Trump, from the fact he handed over a
letter from his wife to Donald Trump's
wife, a technique that uh uh Donald
Trump used on President Putin just on on
on Friday, producing a letter uh from
Melania uh for uh uh for Mrs. Putin and
uh you could tell from the way that he
avoided topics that were likely to cause
a flash point, the most difficult issue,
the most emotive issue for the Ukrainian
president, Ukrainian people, uh the
possibility of territorial swaps or
territorial handover. Uh that an issue
that has riled and animated President
Zinsky in the past but not today. and
the the choreography was kind of I mean
it was all unusual because you know
we've never had uh so many uh key
European leaders in the White House at
one time and at such short notice. I
mean the last time there were so many
world leaders uh in the White House was
back in the 1960s uh for for uh in the
days after JFK's funeral. Um that was a
long time ago. I think Obama had a lot
of African leaders in the White House at
one point uh for an African Union
summit. But key European leaders uh in
the in this context, it's unprecedented.
They were all there, but they weren't in
the Oval Office initially. They were
kind of almost in a waiting room. Uh
they were in another part of the White
House watching as we were what was
unfolding uh in the Oval Office. They
would have been pleased because it it
went well.
>> Yeah. They all arrived by the back door
uh and then they went in for a buffet
lunch essentially into a sort of holding
pen uh separated from the real action
which was President Trump's meeting with
President Zalinski um as it were. They'd
prepped their boy but he had to perform
on his own uh and win over the president
uh in a way that eluded him back in
February. It wasn't until kind of an
hour, hour and a half on that they got
to meet with the president uh to do the
family photo with him and then sit
around uh the table. And for me, some of
the most important remarks from
President Trump were those that were
delivered when President Trump was
sitting around the table with those
individual European leaders because it
was then that he made clear a bit more
detail of the security guarantee of the
uh desire to have a trilateral meeting.
you you just got a greater degree of
specificity uh from Trump uh and he was
reading from a script by the way.
President Trump uh had prepared the
remarks suggesting that thought had gone
into what he was saying. These were the
agreed position of him and his senior
staff and this is the course that he was
determined to act on. These weren't
off-the cuff remarks. These weren't uh
things thrown out. This was the the the
script that was read out to those
leaders appeared to be a settled uh
annunciation of US foreign policy at
that point and that I thought was very
important and extremely unusual uh for
Trump uh to to be to be scripted uh like
that but clearly they thought thought
collectively that that was uh important.
I was struck too that that you know this
is a moment where you have the great dis
disruptor uh Donald Trump in fact in
this case being uh the great convenor uh
wasn't he has managed to get these
people uh together around one table
after uh he had uh achieved that meeting
uh with Putin uh in Alaska. Look, we we
can argue and and we have and plenty
have about uh whe whether the the sort
of weird bromance between uh Putin and
and Trump in Alaska was was unpalatable.
Um you know, the ride in the beast and
all of that, the fly past. How
uncomfortable that was. Certainly, it
was uncomfortable for European leaders,
partly why they needed to be in this
room over the past 12 hours. And so they
were. But what was what was striking to
me is that this this this this great
convenor um he was holding court uh in
the um uh in the room. It was clearly
his moment. But what I was interested
and struck by is that each of the other
European leaders, they all said
something slightly different. It felt
like they were scripted as well. Um you
know it was uh Ursula Vonion who as a
mother of I think quite a few children.
uh she was the person who who who made
the point about children, about the
children, the Ukrainian children who
have been taken out of Ukraine, taken to
Russia uh and them coming back. The
emotive point that that I think they
believe um strikes a chord uh with with
President uh Trump. Others had different
points to make. They all had a point to
make, but none of them felt like they
were sort of, you know, probing or or or
irritating Trump. It was all done with
with with ausive praise. You, Mr. Trump,
have made this happen. That was that was
all very interesting for me.
>> Yeah, I think you're completely right.
It felt like the European leaders had
carved up individual points, some of
which were challenges to Donald Trump.
He didn't take it as such and they
weren't catches as such. Exactly. But K
Star uh for instance uh was trying to
push Donald Trump on the exact nature of
the security guarantees. He referred to
article five like guarantees. with the
right approach this afternoon make real
progress particularly on the security
guarantees and your indication of
security guarantees of some sort of
article 5 style guarantees fits with
what we've been doing with the coalition
of the willing which we started some
months ago bringing countries together
and showing that we were prepared to
step up to the plate when it came to
security with you coming alongside the
US alongside what we've already
developed I think we could take a really
important step forward today a historic
step actually could come out of this
meeting in terms of security for Ukraine
and security in Europe.
>> Now that is a reference to NATO's
article 5 which uh is the sort of joint
and several agreement that if one is
attacked others others will respond. He
at some points some of Donald Trump's
staff, some of his colleagues have
suggested that what the US uh uh will
initiate is a a sort of article 5
protect style protection uh for Ukraine.
It didn't feel like that that initially
that that Donald Trump today was going
along with that. Kdan was pushing for a
bit of clarity uh on that. uh you had uh
Frederick Mertz the German chancellor
suggesting that actually European
leaders weren't prepared to just kick
the idea of a ceasefire off into the
long grass but that's something that
should be adv should be advanced and
agreed and agreed soon uh before he
suggested that their next meeting so in
that round table with European leaders
there was visible difference but but
there was a big thing as well and and as
as we touched on before I think the
security guarantees uh the the the most
significant element of what was agreed
today. Again, we come back to Donald
word Trump's words and the words that
were on that script. Donald Trump said,
"We will now thrash out around the table
who does what?" And that was a
discussion held behind closed doors when
the cameras were turned off.
>> Did did Starmer give you any sense of
what was discussed? So Starmmer is one
of the more elliptical politicians that
I have uh interviewed and I pushed him
on this issue of what these guarantees
mean in practice. What what have we
guaranteed and what would trigger
military action or some kind of
retaliation and what does article 5 mean
in practice? And if I'm being honest
Mark answer came there none nothing of
real substance. What I'm talking about
is that should there be a deal, and I
hope there is, it needs to be a lasting
deal, not a temporary deal, one that is
enforced and necessary where President
Putin knows that if he makes a deal and
then breaches it, there will be serious
consequences. That has been the
underlying objective throughout. That is
um something we've materially moved
forward this morning because uh what
we've now achieved is not only the
guarantee of the coalition of the
willing the 30 countries that we've put
together have already planned for um and
detailed out but now uh working with the
US on taking that forward as a
coordinated joint guarantee and that's
very very important
>> but clearly around that table specific
contributions by different nations were
discussed and we we do not yet know but
we'll probably find out over the coming
hours and days what different nations
put up. Kistan has hinted troops on the
ground maybe as part of the British
contribution. uh at at one end could
America offer troops at at at other
points uh people used uh there was um
some people who talked about America's
contribution being more of coordination
very different end of the scale we don't
know yet but that I think was possibly
the most substantive discussion that
took place today and and that bit hasn't
yet leaked that bit we haven't yet got a
sense of
>> Sam in a moment we'll get into what what
precisely America might be offering uh
in terms of security guarantees but but
broadly uh what would you say are are
the wins uh for from today?
>> The first win was that things didn't go
backwards. There was a very real sense
after Friday's Alaska summit that we
could have another moment of humiliation
for President Silinski. That didn't
happen. That's possibly the biggest win
of all. We didn't go uh things didn't go
south. uh the US language around
security guarantees was Europe's biggest
ask and they got it and they got it
repeatedly on camera uh and and in a
fullthroated way from Donald Trump. Now
we don't know the detail of that but
just a a public commitment like that s
serious breakthrough on security
guarantees. That's how one uh diplomatic
source put it to me. And I think that
the the the final thing and this is more
in the space of what wasn't said but is
equally important is that the Americans
are publicly pushing President Zilinski
to begin a conversation about
territorial swaps, territorial changes,
territorial handover. And that could
have been a trigger for President
Zilinski to
>> Exactly. to to retaliate, to blow up, to
uh to uh to to take a swipe back. And he
didn't do that. I think that there is
the beginning of what will be an
incredibly difficult conversation, but
it's a a conversation in the absence of
complaint by President Zilinski today
that can now has has a now a little bit
of private space in which it can take
place. I think all sides recognized that
you couldn't force President Zalinski to
have that conversation in public. The
rhetoric from Kharma to us earlier this
evening was this is a conversation for
Ukraine to have. Uh but it but it's a
conversation now I feel like they will
have and there's just a little bit of
space, a little bit of permission to
allow President Zinsky to take a message
home. there is an opportunity for peace
and security, but maybe some of the land
maybe some of the land that's gone for
years isn't coming back.
In terms of of the, you know, negatives
uh from today, I mean, I think I guess
it's detail. We, as you've alluded to,
we don't have the detail. What are these
security guarantees? Surely not American
troops on the ground. Who knows? It
seems extremely unlikely. And then of
course how on earth would Putin respond
to that? I mean that is precisely what
he has always that's why he says he went
to war in the first place because of
NATO encroachment into his territory. Uh
so so you can't see um that happening uh
really uh lots of words but not much um
really secured properly. Uh we don't
have any detail on any of that. And then
Trump not very keen on on engaging on a
ceasefire. instead instead wants to do
what he tends to do and skip to the end.
He's got a short attention span. Why
don't we just get it all done now? Well,
you know, as is proving the case,
whether it's Israel, Gaza, or indeed uh
here in Ukraine, it is very hard uh to
do that. So, so plenty of of unknowns
ahead still. And on the specifics of
security guarantees, I mean, a serious
breakthrough is how it's being described
to me. It is a breakthrough because just
in February the Americans were not
willing to to entertain the idea of
their involvement at all. They were
abandoning uh NATO. They were abandoning
Ukraine. That much was very clear in
February. That's why there was the the
the you know the meltdown in the Oval
Office because Zalinski was saying to to
Trump, look, I'm not going to agree to a
ceasefire until you the Americans can
help help us commit uh to to protecting
us down the line so Putin doesn't do
this all over again all over again. And
back then Trump and Vance were saying
no, this isn't our problem. It's
Europe's problem. Something massive has
changed. Part of it is the European
commitment to to increase defense
spending. Um but but Trump has shifted
position massively. That is a win. But
we do not know the detail. We do know
not know how America is going to
guarantee this security. There is some
suggestion. I've been talking to
contacts today who who have suggested
that that a couple of things that that
America could do what they call over the
horizon uh defense. Uh we we we we I
remember Biden talking about this in
Afghanistan. So you withdraw from
Afghanistan, but then you you have this
ability with drones, technology, all the
rest of it, long-range missiles to be
able to to protect a country without
actually being in the country. No boots
on the ground. Maybe that's possible
with Ukraine, but that that's already
been done. I mean, Europe, NATO, the
Americans have already got missile
defense systems in Eastern Europe. Putin
didn't like that, which again is why he
says he invaded Ukraine. So so many
unanswered questions. Look, I think you
have to look through how it would work
on the ground, how it would work in
practice, and you realize that yes, a
huge shift in language, a huge shift in
position, but we're still a long way
away from something that that that
actually might result in a deal. Think
think of it like this. Do we actually,
Mark, do we really, really think that
Britain and other European countries are
willing to put themselves in a position
where they are retaliating against
Russia in order to protect Ukraine in
such a way that could put Britain at war
with Russia? Do we really think that is
what Britain is saying today? I'm not
sure people are quite going that far.
But if but that's the implication when
people talk about article five. You know
an attack on one is an attack on all and
there'll be some form of consequence as
a as a result. Do we really think that
the Americans are going to commit
sufficiently and publicly such that the
rest of Europe re sort of gets gets
involved? Um and what is the threshold
for retaliation? um at what point does
it justify a military response from any
of the coalition of the winning that
take take part? All of these three
issues and many others are the kind
unresolved as far as we could possibly
tell at the moment that could throw a
huge spanner in the works. I I I I put
it to you this. It is actually not that
hard to say in the abstract that the US
can provide a security guarantee when
the detail is actually missing because
the detail is the thing that will either
make this happen or not. Sam, I guess I
guess a lot of this comes down to uh the
the the kind of personal rapport uh that
Putin and Trump have that Trump seems to
think he has uh with the Russian uh
president. Uh I mean we saw it on show
uh in Alaska and there was an intriguing
hot mic moment as they're known uh today
uh where uh Trump talking to France's
President Emanuel Macarron uh was heard
saying I think he Putin wants to make a
deal. I think he wants to make a deal
for me. You understand that? As crazy as
it sounds. That's a quote uh for what
Trump said to Macaron. Trump seems to
believe that that for for reasons
unknown uh Putin now uh wants to make a
deal uh on Ukraine when he has shown
absolutely no interest up till now and
indeed as recently as as overnight more
bombs uh on Ukraine. He's shown no
interest in a ceasefire and stopping uh
his aggression. And yet apparently for
Trump uh he now wants to. So this is
this is a matter of a of a personal
relationship, a a rapport, a trust uh
that Trump again repeated today that he
has in Putin. A trust uh that no
European leader has. What a day. Uh what
a day. I do think it was interesting
that that you know if there was a sense
and I've certainly sensed this over the
past few months that what Trump wanted
was a quick win uh and and just get a
ceasefire, get get the peace done now
and doesn't really matter what happens
down the line. you know, when the
Europeans saying, "Yeah, but we've got
to have guarantees because Putin will do
this again and he'll encroach on other
countries in Eastern Europe." Trump was
like, "Hey, whatever." I I let's just
get peace done. Now, I I did get the
sense today that he seems now to
recognize that there's no point uh in
getting peace short term if it all
unravels uh in in the months and years
ahead because his legacy will matter
beyond uh the next few weeks and months.
his legacy, which is what this is partly
all about for him. Uh that that the
Nobel Peace Prize and all the rest of
it, it matters that this piece lasts.
And I do think the likes of Marco Rubio,
his secretary of state and national
security adviser, who is kind of a
grown-up in the room, to use that that
phrase, um he he seems to be influencing
the president in that respect. You can't
just have a short-term fix. It's got to
be a long-term uh fix on that. But but
as we know um the president uh he can
change course fast. Achievements now can
amount to to relatively little later. Uh
there's no question Sam this meeting uh
today was unprecedented. The tone has
shifted for sure. Uh but the end point
um for me it's still impossible to
chart. And we do have the tantalizing
prospect Sam of a bilateral meeting
between presidents Putin and Zalinski.
And then following that, so says Donald
Trump, a trilat as he calls it. He'll
join them, the three of them in the
room. Incidentally, it's interesting
that uh Zalinski claims that it was
Putin who suggested that the initial
meeting should just be the two of them
without President Trump. I wonder uh why
that is, but it's certainly something uh
to look out for. Uh they say it might
happen uh in the next few weeks. We will
keep a very close eye on that. Sam,
great of you to join us.
>> Well, thank you very much indeed. It's
been a pleasure and I'm delighted to be
back on the podcast. Maybe I will speak
to you once again, maybe even this week.
>> Yeah, I'm sure you will. Remember to
email us your questions and thoughts.
Trumps sky.uk and you can keep up to
date with the latest in DC this week by
following us on all social media. And of
course, you can find Sam on his very own
podcast, Politics at Sam. We'll be back
properly on start of September weekly
episodes on different bits, different
deep dives in British politics. until
then. Excellent. Cheers, Sam. Bye-bye.
Thanks very much for having me.